Holandsko - zákaz IPSC?

[HV]

...přejímám maily z Pandory ohledně možného zákazu dynamické střelby v Holandsku. Kdo si bude chtít text přeložit z originálu, může použít google překladač
http://translate.google.cz/?hl=cs&tab=wT#nl|cs|%0A

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Populiste vystrkuji opet ruzky a s jakoukoliv dynamickou strelbou v NL je to nahnute.

Petice nize....

Dear fellow IPSC shooters and friends,

As many of you have heard already, IPSC shooting (in fact all Dynamic shooting disciplines) are about to be prohibited in the Netherlands!
This new law will be voted on in a matter of weeks, and if it passes ? will mean the end of our sport in Holland, and who knows ? this decision may well spread quickly across the EU.

As you can imagine, the NPSA (the Dutch IPSC organization) is mobilizing every possible resource to fight this unjust proposed law, but it is a desperate battle. The odds are stacked against us.

We need your help!

There is a petition being signed (online) which will be submitted along with other material as we try to make our case for our sport.
You can help by going online and signing this petition. The more signatures we have, the better.
Please also take a moment to forward this email to anyone you can think of who could generate more signatures, your shooting range, your club, your federation, your local gunsmiths who may be able to send it on to their mailing list. Post it online on any website you have access to.
We want to show that IPSC is a serious sport, with thousands of participants worldwide.

Please take a minute to log onto this site:
http://petities.nl/petitie/dynamische-d ... en-blijven

Scroll down, where it says ?Ik? ? you fill in your name
- Where it says ?wonede te? you fill in your city and country.
- Tick the checkbox if you want to allow your name to be shown on the list.
- Enter your email address
- And click the yellow box ?ondertekenen? to sign the petition.

Many thanks for your participation in our fight.

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Zdravím všechny!

Rád jsem podepsal petici proti nepřátelům zbraní a našeho sportu v Holandsku - co totiž s úspěchem nastartuje v jedné členské zemi EU, může být za nedlouho předmětem regulace v celé unii, a proto by nás navrhované změny v Holandsku měly znepokojovat.

Dovoluji si proto pro všechny z Vás, kdo neovládáte dobře holandštinu a máte zájem se připojit, dát návod k podepsání petice:

Petici můžete podepsat na: http://petities.nl/petitie/dynamische-d ... en-blijven

Do kolonky Ik? vyplňte svoje jméno

Do kolonky wonede te? vyplňte svoje město a zemi
- pokud chcete být na petici adresně, zaškrtněte políčko pod tím

Pak už jen vložte e-mailovou adresu a kliknutím na žluté pole s nápisem "ondertekenen" petici podepíšete


hezký zbytek víkendu

Roman Podlešák

[S474N]

Jim tam hrablo nebo co? Uz aby je zaplavila voda.

[Self-Def-Enthusiast]

Co jsem vyrozumnel ze stranky te petice, tak je na to v Nizozemsku nahlizeno jako na "combat training", tedy "bojovy trenink". To da rozum ne? Boj je prece vzdycky spatny a jakekoliv nasili je navrat do stredoveku

[Salamoun]

Bylo by od věci na tuto poplašnou zprávu se dívat s nadhledem a vše brát s rozvahou,ku příkladu v Holandsku se už pár desetiletí parlamentně dohadují jestli mají odhození nepotřebného jízdního kola do blízkého vodního kanálu klasifikovat jako přestupek,nebo ne.Tedy všem nadšencům z Pandory sečtělým tetičkou Wyblipedií a využívající strýčka Googláááá doporučuji si zmiňovaný návrh řádně přečíst,potom se informovat o parlamentním systému v Nizozemí a zchladit své emoce,on ten návrh skutečně padl,ale jeho právní realizace je asi v nedohlednu

[lo3k]

Divna zeme,hlavne ze huleni je OK.

[g-relax]

Nejedná se o apríl! Návod, jak vyjádřit podporu je uveden v tomto textu.

Urgent - Your Action is Needed Now! 30 March, 2012

Dear fellow IPSC shooters and friends,

As many of you have heard already, IPSC shooting (in fact all Dynamic shooting disciplines) are about to be prohibited in the Netherlands!
This new law will be voted on in a matter of weeks, and if it passes – will mean the end of our sport in Holland, and who knows – this decision may well spread quickly across the EU.

As you can imagine, the NPSA (the Dutch IPSC organization) is mobilizing every possible resource to fight this unjust proposed law, but it is a desperate battle. The odds are stacked against us.

We need your help!

There is a petition being signed (online) which will be submitted along with other material as we try to make our case for our sport.
You can help by going online and signing this petition. The more signatures we have, the better.
Please also take a moment to forward this email to anyone you can think of who could generate more signatures, your shooting range, your club, your federation, your local gunsmiths who may be able to send it on to their mailing list. Post it online on any website you have access to.
We want to show that IPSC is a serious sport, with thousands of participants worldwide.

Please take a minute to log onto this site:
http://petities.nl/petitie/dynamische-d ... en-blijven

Scroll down, where it says “Ik” – you fill in your name
- Where it says ”wonede te” you fill in your city and country.
- Tick the checkbox if you want to allow your name to be shown on the list.
- Enter your email address
- And click the yellow box “ondertekenen” to sign the petition.

Many thanks for your participation in our fight.

Best Regards,
Saul Kirsch
General Manager
Double-Alpha Academy B.V.

You have received this e-mail because you have contacted Double-Alpha Academy in the past. If you no longer wish to receive our e-mails then please click here to unsubscribe.

[kolaCZek]

lo3k: Mozna prave kombinace hulani a IPSC. A lehci je zakazat IPSC. Tim si nenaserou tolik lidi.

[g-relax]

Přehlédl jsem, že už bylo založeno téma: holandsko-zakaz-ipsc-t8669.html ,

tak aspoň přidávám odkaz na stránky, kde je v angličtině vysvětleno, o co jde: http://savedynamicshooting.jouwweb.nl/

[jomekabi]

Preposilam velmi znepokojujici zpravu z Holandska. Budiz to dukazem, ze mezinarodni spoluprace, kterou LEX prave dava dohromady, je NUTNOSTI, a ze bychom meli nase snahy akcelerovat, nebo prijdeme s krizkem po funuse.

Jelikoz zprava je v anglictine, tak tedy ve zkratce:
V Holandsku chteji zakazat IPSC a vubec vsechny akcni strelecke discipliny, protoze mohou slouzit k vycviku potencialnich zabijaku. I kdyz nejaka odborna komise rekla, ze to je blbost a i policie se k tomu postavila velmi vlazne, politici a KNSA (protejsek naseho CSS) to spolu presto upekli. KNSA zastava nazor, ze vsechny tyto "kovbojske" (tj. neolympijske) discipliny stavi strelce do spatneho svetla. Navic to vymysleli tak, ze vsichni, kdo nejsou cleny "normalnich" (tj. mirenkarskych) klubu muzou strilet do listopadu, a pak si budou muset zbrane zamknout do trezoru a nikdy na ne nesahnout. To znamena, ze zbrane jim nebudou odebrany, kterymzto padem nemaji narok na kompenzaci. Ovsem dedicke pravo na ne bude zruseno, takze propadnou v pripade umrti.

Je tam toho mnohem vic, ale toto je to nejpodstatnejsi.

Na http://petities.nl/petitie/dynamische-d ... en-blijven je petice, kterou muzou podepsat i lide, nezijici v Holandsku (je to oficielni, tj. vladni, peticni stranka).

Je nutno vyplnit jmeno (Ik), bydliste (wonede te), emailovou adresu, a kliknout na “ondertekenen”. Potom prijde potvrzujici e-mail, kde se nemusi nic jineho vyplnovat, akorat kliknout na “U kunt uw ondertekening bevestigen door op deze zin te klikken”.
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Puvodni zprava:

Hello!

Firstly, the instructions given for signing the petition were not complete and I apologise for that.

These were the original instructions, which are fine, so far as they go:

Please take a minute to log onto this site:
http://petities.nl/petitie/dynamische-d ... en-blijven

Scroll down, where it says “Ik” – you fill in your name
- Where it says ”wonede te” you fill in your city and country.
- Tick the checkbox if you want to allow your name to be shown on the list.
- Enter your email address
- And click the yellow box “ondertekenen” to sign the petition.

The crucial point is that you must confirm your signature, or it will not count. After you have clicked on the yellow signature box “ondertekenen”, an email will promptly be sent to you from the government petition site. This email will have a sentence in Dutch asking you to confirm your signature “U kunt uw ondertekening bevestigen door op deze zin te klikken”, which must be clicked.

Secondly, I have had many inquiries as to why the Dutch would do such a thing. Icarus van der Kolk has given this explanation:

First off the Dutch situation is a bit weird so here goes:

To own a gun you have to be a member of a private body called the Royal Dutch Shooting Association (KNSA) under the directorship of Lord Greven (remember that gun control here was introduced to keep the royalists armed and the socialist unarmed). As a member you don’t get to vote for or against the board of directors. Just to give you a feeling for the organisation they publish reports with titles like 'Kaf & Koren' that means something like 'Keeping Out the Riff Raff'.
According to KNSA rules you further need to be in serious active competition and train at least 18x a year (stamped and signed for), you can only have guns that you use in that active competition.
Their tactic for combating gun control was based on telling the public that guns are dangerous and have no place in the general society except for strictly regulated serious sportsmen. If you said something like 'natural right of self defence' you would almost certainly be kicked out and your guns taken away because you would be considered at risk of abusing you position as sportsman.

The ban itself:

The KNSA has always hated the modern non-Olympic shooting sports and had all sorts of stupid rules that prevented say cowboy action shooters from wearing cowboy outfits for fear of a bad image.

Basically the KNSA decided in an agreement with the Justice Minister to ban all dynamic shooting/ shooting where the shooter moves and therefore it in effect banned the possession of the guns used for this as well (you can only own guns for active competition). This was simply done without any law being changed or any democratic controls.

The strange thing is that we had a government-held meeting a couple of months ago of police, firearms experts and criminologists that basically came to the conclusion that no new rules were needed (well apart from not giving a registered and known madman a gun by a police a officer that had been suspended and fired for corruption in the line of duty (selling off confiscated guns)).
The whole issue had become mute as the police were not pushing it for obvious reasons and the left wing parties didn’t have any interest the matter of weapons law apart from the usual pushing for a ban on arms export to Israel (its a pet hobby for them). I in the meantime noticed that after the meeting the Minister had ordered his civil servants and KNSA to re-evaluate the Dutch shooting sports in a closed setting. Normally I can always find somebody who will leak information about what is going on (small country and even smaller shooting community) but in this was not the case here so I tried some freedom of information requests but they have already finished before I could finish court proceedings.

The outcome was a lot of non-nonsensical restrictions like new psychological tests and even more active and regimented competition as well as the following (my translation kept close to the original Dutch):

No Combat in Shooting sports

Shooting sports must be kept clean of training that can be useful for the offensive use of firearms. This type of offensive training and weapons and (camouflage) clothing can have an undesirable effect and can be attractive to the wrong element. This therefore requires strict regulation. Everything has to be done to prevent a solecistic threat, also know as a 'Lone Wolve' [that’s the spelling in the document not mine] from acquiring weapons and skills by way of the shooting sports. By way of the Olympic and non offensive nature of the sport Biathlon is exempt.

No new licenses will be issued and the current owners of such guns will have a grace period to keep shooting until November after which they have to keep their guns in the safe, no shooting, no selling, no inheriting. This is a smart move as they are then not required to give any compensation because the guns have technically not been taken away or nationalised.

I am working hard trying to think of a way to tackle the current situation but I believe it may be to late as the ground work should have been slowly laid down many years ago. There is also no way to mount any effective legal challenges so for the moment I will focus on trying to lobby the Justice Ministers party MP's to try and do something (most shooters vote for this party and they will maybe loose a seat in parliament).

Some European Shooting Organisations

During the 1980’s and ‘90’s I attended quite a lot of AFTSC (Association de Federation de Tir Sportif de la CE) meetings in Nuremberg and one in Brussels, as well as the final dissolution meeting in 2009. The Secretary-General was a S. Duisterhof, who was also a senior official in the KNSA. At a superficial level he seemed a pleasant, cultured man, but as soon as I got to know him at all well, it became clear that he was a strong believer in gun control and in as many restrictions and as much bureaucracy as could be devised.

Sadly KNSA is not the only shooting organisation doing its best to destroy sport shooting. 3 years ago I had lunch in Nuremberg with Goran Nygren, Secretary-General of the Swedish Sport Shooting Federation and Tommy Sorensen of the Danish Shooting Union and was disappointed to find that neither appeared to have ever done any serious reading into the costs and effects of gun control – but strongly believed in it; and both were firm believers in masses of restrictions and bureaucracy. I have not made the effort to find out how they personally, or their organisations, are funded, but I strongly suspect that it is by, or through their respective governments, rather than as a result of thriving shooting activities, or increasing membership.

Sorry about all this depressing stuff.

Regards
Derek
Derek Bernard

[DeadlyOne]

To je hrozna debilita. Nejhorsi na tom je, ze to muze prijmout EU a tim padem je to i tady. Je to globalni trend, a porad se resi to same. Proste "zbrane zabijeji" a kazdy kdo ma zbran a cvici treba obrannou strelbu je ted podle Holandske vlady potencionalni terorista. Ja bych to spis videl tak, ze v dnesni dobe se nektere vlady EU chovaji jako teroriste k obcanum a snazi se kompletne odstranit zakladni pravo kazdeho obcana to je ochrana zivota, zdravi a majetku, takze pravo na obranu. Petici jsem podepsal, a podepisu dalsi, a dalsi a dalsi.

[kolaCZek]

To uz tu parkrat bylo, ne?

Jeden člověk s puškou je schopen kontrolovat sto neozbrojených. Provádějte plošné prohlídky a za nalezené zbraně popravujte. - Vladimír Iljič Lenin

Němci, kteří chtějí používat zbraně, by měli vstoupit do SA nebo SS - obyčejní občané zbraně nepotřebují, protože v jejich rukou státu k ničemu nejsou. - Heinrich Himmler

Tento rok se zapíše do historie. Vůbec poprvé zavedl civilizovaný národ úplnou registraci zbraní. Naše ulice budou bezpečnější, naše policie efektivnější a celý svět nás bude následovat vstříc budoucnosti! - Adolf Hitler

Veškerá politická moc pochází z hlavně pušky. Veškerými zbraněmi musí vládnout komunistická strana, aby takto žádné zbraně nemohly nikdy být použity k vládnutí straně. - Mao C´Tung

To, jak chlapci nakonec dopadli snad popisovat nemusim...

[cmk]

Pro nas je dulezite pouceni, ze stralci kombatovych disciplin jsou trnem v oku "olympijskym" streleckym svazum a ze kdyz pichnul Holandskym IPSC strelcum do zad nuz jejich strelecky svaz, muze se naprosto totez stat u nas.
Cimz nechci predem obvinovat nas strelecky svaz - jen rikam, ze je treba:
a) Holandanum pomoct
b) se z toho poucit.

Proti CSS nic nemam, akorat jsem si nikdy nevsimnul zadne podpory CSS vuci IPSC ci LOSu.
A navic si rikam, ze organizaci, ktera dostava od statu dotace muze byt nemile, ze vedle funguje nekolik organizaci, ktere zadne penize od statu nedostavaji a take funguji - se stejnymi uspechy.

[MarK]

Pro nas je dulezite pouceni, ze stralci kombatovych disciplin jsou trnem v oku "olympijskym" streleckym svazum a ze kdyz pichnul Holandskym IPSC strelcum do zad nuz jejich strelecky svaz, muze se naprosto totez stat u nas.

Reseni je nasnade - dostat dynamicke strelecke discipliny na olympiadu!

[E-Ryc]

No nevim, jestli je to nejlepsi napad, prece jen skupina, z jejiz hromadky by se prachy presunuly na nove odvetvi, by rvala v mnostvi vetsim nez malem...